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Post by kriegslied on Jan 16, 2007 14:57:39 GMT -5
Well, other than the fact that the lizardman would never be able to function in most Faerun societies.
I've heard the argument before and it always seems like the lizardman becomes more like a monster-raced evil pc than the evil pc becomes like a baddie npc.
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Post by DM Badger on Jan 16, 2007 15:09:44 GMT -5
Killing an Evil player is the same as killing an Evil Lizardman. Since both have the minimum intelligence required to make moral decisions and have both chosen to be Evil. Wrong. That's shallow evil you have in mind, which is usually Chaotic Evil. A political figure that appears good on the surface and promises best for his people yet uses his influence and political power for personal gains is Lawful Evil. Surely if someone kills him, the "hero" is likely to be lynched unless he present crucial proofs. Neutral Evil characters can be characters that have set a goal that might be reached only through evil acts, and thus the character is ready to make such sacrifices in order to achieve said goal. Then there are evil characters that actually think their methods are more saintly than that of a good-aligned character, or even, say, a paladin. He or she might think she's making a world a better place, when she actually isn't. Or is, according to some people's view. Finally, it depends on the people slaying the "monster". I've inspired a moral conflict between two characters on the server: they've argued over a deceitful kill of a lizardling chieftain. Finally, characters of sheer good will are more likely to spare a villain, and give him or her a chance to redeem himself. Which is where the "Evil char is a player controlled monster" is wrong: if you look at the Monster Manual, a fair deal of evil monsters are either "often L/N/CE" or "always L/N/CE", which means they're rarely or never convertable, respectively. Besides, lizardmen are lizardmen. They have prejudice slapped onto their forehead, they're a "kill on sight" in most cases. A human, however, might disguise his evil nature. Perhaps even frame someone.
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Post by kriegslied on Jan 16, 2007 15:18:11 GMT -5
Besides, lizardmen are lizardmen. They have prejudice slapped onto their forehead, they're a "kill on sight" in most cases. A human, however, might disguise his evil nature. Perhaps even frame someone. So evil drow characters = evil lizardman npcs; it's different for everyone else though. (Kidding) Anyways, I agree with Badger, pretty much said what I was trying to get at but had a lack of words for. We had an evil mage in a campaign I played as a CG rogue, and he managed to fit in fine. Usually meant he was manipulating my halfling character to convince the others, do things sneakilly, etc, but it made things a blast. It's a rare gem when you can get that kind of stuff to work though.
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Post by DM Badger on Jan 16, 2007 16:17:24 GMT -5
So evil drow characters = evil lizardman npcs; it's different for everyone else though. It's partially truthful, though! >_> If NWN2 servers weren't flooded with drow powergamers, and I was playing a good-aligned character, I'd be more than likely eventually rally a group to plunge a blade into a drow's heart.
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Post by kriegslied on Jan 16, 2007 16:30:23 GMT -5
If only that good character was a CG drow follower of Eilistraee...
Oh the irony ;D
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Post by DM Badger on Jan 16, 2007 16:32:33 GMT -5
Well, that'd make things a little different... Seeing as Eilistraeens do not attack other drow unless it is absolutely unnecessary. They'd rather convert one than kill one. There's always exceptions though... *cleans her bloody blade*
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Post by kriegslied on Jan 16, 2007 16:35:19 GMT -5
The cleric of Eilistraee in the War of the Spider Queen series made me vomit in my mouth a bit.
They let themselves get walked over more than Ilmater's clergy...
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Post by Cecil on Jan 16, 2007 17:06:56 GMT -5
I believe the rules and suggestions stated in the DM's guide were to make things easier, not to set a guideline that must be followed. In a pnp game, it might work better if everyone can get along, but I think it's a poor dm who can't provide plot hooks and motivations for a party with a spectrum of varying alignments and moralities, it just takes more planning if anything.
Now, an online server like our's isn't a pnp game, and evil characters are, infact, rather necessary for an interesting server. A dm cannot be on 24/7 to play evil npcs and make things interesting-that's where evil characters come in. They can make interesting for the good and neutrals on the server. One just has to realize that to defeat them can't be through permakilling since that's someone else's character.
I actually want more people on the server to play evil. Having good outnumber evil makes for a very boring setting, because good then will always, very very easily, overcome instead of having a real struggle.
That said, coincidentially, alot of the bosses of dungeons coming up won't be evil. Afterall, alot of elven ruins are defended by elves who willingly took to undeath. (see Baelnorns).
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remi
Traveller
Posts: 13
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Post by remi on Mar 22, 2007 15:41:02 GMT -5
Meh... A Lawful Evil character wouldn't necessarily be considered a monster in any way. Consider the noble Baron that holds his land in an iron fist, overtaxing his people, while licking the King's behind. He'd probably be very popular at court, holding huge feasts for other nobles, aiding his King with whatever forces of arms that were required of him, but at the same time squeezing his own people dry of wealth, torturing "criminals" (poachers and the like that had to break the Baron's law to get food on the table) beyond what it necessary... The Baron is the local law. He rules with the blessing of the King. He is an evil bastard that thinks of nothing than improving his own situation and reputation. He doesn't break any laws, and cannot be trialed for whatever cruelties he commits. Any player character killing him, would probably incur the wrath of the great lawful neutral King. A monster say you? Perhaps, but not the same as an evil lizardman
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Furyou Miko
Traveller
The scary priestess with the glasses
Posts: 12
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Post by Furyou Miko on Apr 12, 2007 3:44:44 GMT -5
Well, the two characters I've ever played that came closest to my heart are probably Minori Kusao (who went something like... LE -> LN -> LG -> CE -> LE. She tried being Good, but she was a demon... all she could do to stay lawful. Even if she was a devout Tyrran since the LN->LG transformation.) and Navarra Darkwind (NE). So... I'd say that Neutral Evil is probably my favourite.
Neutral Evil serves one thing only. Themselves. And they don't let any stupid ideals get in their way. They neither insist on following their own code of honour, nor do they believe that chaotic randomness is important - they won't let a contract get in their way, but they aren't going to break it for laughs either. They won't take anything from anybody - unless it benefits them in the long run. Neutral Evil is the kind of cold, calculating evil that gets things done. The business kind of evil.
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