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Post by fathertime on Jan 12, 2007 9:45:37 GMT -5
Ok, so I've noticed a few things since playing NWN.
First off, a bit of background... I'm 28, and played 2nd ed. AD&D when I was a kid. Back in my day, the drow were BAD guys. Unless a campaign was specifically designed for an all drow group, we didn't generally allow them as PC's, since it tended to screw things up real bad. Also, it seemed like most folks who wanted to play drow simply wanted to play them for the munchkin powers they get.
So, given the munchkin powers, I suppose I shouldn't be suprised to see tons of drow EVERYWHERE in NWN. Seriously, as a moon elf (which I would have considered an "elf" back when I started playing D&D) it would appear that I'm in the minority as far as elves in the server go, and that seems odd.
But hey, I suppose things have changed, and everyone likes being a drow now.. that's fine. But I've got some questions regarding how we're supposed to act around them.
Now, as I explained, I grew up thinking of Drow as "the bad guys." They were pretty much all evil (certain famous literary characters aside), and they were pretty much all violent. If PC's saw Drow in one of my campaigns, it was pretty certain that they were gonna fight with them eventually.
But, given the fact that we've got a bunch of PC's playing drow on the server, I'm assuming that we don't want to just have some lame war where we kill each other every time we see each other, right? I mean, I've had little drowlets walk past me without giving me a second look, when I could have easilly killed them if I had decided to... and most likely, that would have been the more in character thing to do. But they were little baby drow, and as a player I didn't think it was really fair, and probably wouldn't be much fun for them.
But at the same time, simply ignoring drow seems to be wrong as well, and somewhat jarring from the perspective of playing in character.
So, what exactly are we supposed to do? Is there some piece of Lore that I'm missing that makes the Drow NOT a hated and feared race from the underdark? Is there any reasonable justification for them just wandering around on the surface, and having the townsfolk apparently accept them without question?
While we're at it... there's not some kind of cheese going on that has all the outside areas only "dim" sunlight or something? Again, perhaps my D&D knowledge is dated, but I seem to remember Drow suffering some pretty massive handicaps if caught in the sun, and being basically blinded by bright light. Did they get rid of all of this when they came up with the whole ECL stuff?
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Post by pekarion on Jan 12, 2007 10:19:46 GMT -5
Good question. until now, I tend to just ignore the fact that they're drow. Until there's a decision from the AS team on this I'll just assume that not everyone is up on their FR lore and just pick drow or duergar completely oblivious to the fact that they shouldn't be on the surface milling with the other races.
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Post by cleitanious on Jan 12, 2007 10:48:07 GMT -5
They are allergic to the sunlight and evil, my Paladin would kill them on sight - and so SHOULD any guard npc (We do the same for Orcs and Kobolds right?) , but whatever >_>
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Post by Fade Mei'ren on Jan 12, 2007 11:03:44 GMT -5
Ok, so I've noticed a few things since playing NWN. First off, a bit of background... I'm 28, and played 2nd ed. AD&D when I was a kid. Back in my day, the drow were BAD guys. Unless a campaign was specifically designed for an all drow group, we didn't generally allow them as PC's, since it tended to screw things up real bad. Also, it seemed like most folks who wanted to play drow simply wanted to play them for the munchkin powers they get. Indeed, on most servers I've played, a lot of drows can be seen, and none of them offered a level of roleplaying I'd be satisfied with. In fact, all of them were a "template" drow: hateful and evil. Wow, like, so original. Huh, what? There's only one PC drow on this server as far as I know, and that is.. well, meee! Ignoring them if you do not wish to engage in a roleplay session with them is fine in my book, but when your character ignores a drow... Few people do that. Drow inspire two reactions, more often than not those being fear or violence. If you encounter a drow on the surface, you try to do what your character would do. Humans are the most flexible concerning such decision, while other races are swayed by traditions and history, though you're in control of your character, and not the other way around. Naturally, something could've occured in your character's past life that has entirely changed his or her outlook on certain matters. Maybe a drow has saved his or her family? More on this later. Moon elves are most tolerant and peaceful: they're usually neutral in alignment, and they find humans distasteful the least, so it's logical to assume they won't be highly bothered by the drow. They're not stupid, of course, and will sidestep any encountered drow. Good-aligned moon elves are highly likely to eliminate the threat, while evil-aligned will care less, or, if LE, might even seek to ally him/herself with the creature, unless it goes against his or her code. Wood elves are a different case. Some of them absolutely hate the drow, others share views with the moon elves, and the final group sympathize. The first house to fall in the Crown Wars, Miyeritar, consisted of wood and dark elves. Assuming a wood elven character knows of the ancient elven history, he will know how the dark elves became corrupted, which wasn't their will, and the war was started by others... Sun elves either fear or hate the drow, or do both. Political figures try to silently eradicate any drow present, while a sun elf in an adventuring party is highly likely to persuade their allies into killing the "betrayer" (dhaerow means "betrayer"). Again, every rule has an exception. When you encounter a drow, "lend" your character your own emotions which you would have when you saw a killer on the street who was shown on the news last night. It depends highly on yourself: do you think you can handle the drow alone? Did it notice you? What will it do? What will you do? By no means should you just think, "Ah-hah, a drow! Thy blood will spill over thy body!". Even those who actually intend to kill the drow must inititate some sort of conversation, even if it's going to be short and will end in a bloody battle. Well, actually, drow almost never enter the surface and stroll around rubbing the Spider's Queen's amulet between their fingers. They know they're hated and feared, and they love it like that, but they're not stupid and they know their bounds; they can't take on an army if they're alone on the surface, and usually resort to stealth, so few will notice them. Second, one of the deities in the drow pantheon is Eilistraee, The Moon Maiden. This is a good-aligned deity, and she is there to rid the drow of Lolth's influence. Eilistraee worshippers pursue the following goal: every drow has a chance to redeem themselves, and the drow belong on the surface with their fellow elves. So there are good drows, however, the problem is, very few, if anyone, knows it, since Eilistraee worshippers are rather reclusive, and they're frowned down upon in the drow society. They're not completely blinded, and they're not suffering from massive handicaps. They do not live in unlit cities, eternally in the dark, which is why they get the innate ability to conjure light. They suffer a -1 penalty to attack rolls, saves and skill checks last I recall, when they are outdoors during the daytime, although one of NWN2's many bugs is that drows receive the penalty even at night.
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Post by fathertime on Jan 12, 2007 14:12:41 GMT -5
I've seen a few so far.. or else they're just elves with dark skin, which honestly seems to be how they're played.
That's certainly the case.. and part of the reason for this topic. On a new server, I won't really get into it until I get a feel for how things work... especially since there tend to be a good number of non-drow who are somehow "friends" with the drow.. which seems equally absurd to me.
I have no specific backstory regarding drow... So I would tend to have the "generic" reaction to drow, which is that they are bad, and if they're on the surface, it's because they are planning to attack us.
However, what's really odd though, is that the council person (voiced by Cecil) seemed perfectly fine with the fact that there were multiple drow wandering around town. This struck me as odd, and was part of the reason why I decided to not pursue what I'd normally consider a reasonable reaction to drow (usually violence, distaste, etc.)
But I'd like to know how you'd like to handle it, being a drow.. I mean, I know the generally accepted rules about things like RPing any kind of PVP.. but even this tends to be somewhat difficult. I mean, my character would regard a drow as equivalent to an Orc... Generally, if I see an orc out in the wilderness, I'm gonna shoot him in the head, and ask questions later. I'm not going to go up to him and engage in a conversation to determine whether he's REALLY evil.. he's an orc. Drow are in a similar position.
If you've got ideas about how this kind of thing has been handled in the past, that worked out well and was IC, it may be helpful for me to hear.
If I remember correctly from my old Drow handbook, I thought the drow had the ability to conjure *darkness*, not light... They had darkvision, and as such, didn't really need light for most things.
Also, there was the old rule (almost certain this stuff isn't around) that all drow equipment slowly disintegrated when out of the underdark, as it was essentially preserved by the natural radiation of the underdark environment.
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Post by kriegslied on Jan 12, 2007 14:22:56 GMT -5
Personally I've only met Fade's drow so I don't know how other people are playing theirs, but Fade seems to try and conceal the fact that she's drow most of the time. I would at least give the person as much of a parlay as to find out whether they're concealing their appearance more than the game engine will allow before putting an arrow in their skull, but my natural reaction would be to fire away as well, and I've grown into D&D in the 3.0/3.5 editions, so things haven't changed that much. Drow can cast both darkness and light, though the light part doesn't make much sense to me either. And the equipment thing is true, but that's to the admantine (i think?) equipment forged in the underdark. Some of Drizzt's equipment disintegrated over time, it wasn't a flash thing, which would give a drow enough time to kill a wandering band of adventurers and take their equipment instead.
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Post by pyscho on Jan 12, 2007 14:28:27 GMT -5
Drow tend to be Evil to bone, but there are those surface drow Ive seen as of late too who are "good". When I go on as my elf I tend to see nothing but evil in drow and I will completley ignore thier presence till I have a reason to kill them. Or I may begin a line of insults and taunting to make them attack me in order to kill them.
But you are free to play what character you want and how you wish to on this server, so long as you have a legit reasoning behind it.
As example say your a drow and your story is you was raised by elves, sure that works.
Now if you come on as a drow and reason is you had a change of heart.. well that wouldnt cut it in my books since drow would be killed on sight for a change of heart or mutated by Lloth into some abomination to serve her
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Post by Fade Mei'ren on Jan 12, 2007 14:33:49 GMT -5
I've seen a few so far.. or else they're just elves with dark skin, which honestly seems to be how they're played. Ehm... when do they come on? Because during European time, I've seen none. I mean, none of the PCs. Although I do agree with you, I have to stress that drow don't necessarily befriend only and only other drow. Drow are not savage, non-intelligent beings that only one thing on their mind: murder. Although drow were chaotic evil in earlier editions, they're NE as of now. They follow traditions and law when it's benefitial for them, and they have their own code of conduct of sorts. There's a method to their evil. Non-celestial planetouched, as well as evil-aligned "surfacers" are likely to befriend a drow, especially if their goals coincide in one form or another. Like I said. What would -you- do if you saw a killer walking the streets? I doubt you'd run up to him and smash him in the face. Then again, this is a fictional world... If you read the setting of Acheron's Spawn 2, you'll notice that equally... "evil" characters both visit and reside on the isle. Tieflings are more often than not being considered as the embodiment of evil due to their infernal/abyssal heritage, yet they're accepted by the society. No, they're not. An orc is an entirely non-intelligent creature of chaos, with a single mindset of its own, or its tribe's. Drow are fairly intelligent: they get a +2 INT. See it like this: what if there are more drow around? Kill one and you won't know where others are. They can conjure darkness and light. If I recall correctly, only adamantine drow weaponry had the chance of breaking/falling apart. But it's not like a lot of the drow will have an adamantine sword as their starting equipment, so this rule isn't really relevant here. Gonna add to the last bit some: if you take care of the weapon accordingly, it will not fall apart.
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Post by kriegslied on Jan 12, 2007 14:41:03 GMT -5
I did some more thinking and I'm pretty sure Drizzt's piwafwi broke apart, and I know his scimitars did for sure, so I really have no clue what the standard is regarding which equipment has that chance to disintegrate.
Edit: Just read Fade's addendum *slaps forehead* Makes sense.
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Post by Fade Mei'ren on Jan 12, 2007 14:42:39 GMT -5
I've worded it wrong: if you take care of the weapon in a specific manner, it will not break, otherwise, it'll go poofmagicks. I do not remember accurately; I think it had something to do with coating the blade in some substance or something. Don't quote me on this.
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Post by kriegslied on Jan 12, 2007 14:48:53 GMT -5
I've worded it wrong: if you take care of the weapon in a specific manner, it will not break, otherwise, it'll go poofmagicks. I do not remember accurately; I think it had something to do with coating the blade in some substance or something. Don't quote me on this. Quoted for truth... oh and to add this: "Direct sunlight utterly destroys drow cloth, boots, weapons, and armor. When any item produced by them is exposed to the light of the sun, irreversible decay begins. Within 2d6 days, the items lose their magical properties and rot, becoming totally worthless. Drow artifacts, protected from sunlight, retain their special properties for 1d20+30 days before becoming normal items. If a drow item is protected from direct sunlight and exposed to the radiations of the drow underworld for one week out of every four, it will retain its properties indefinitely."
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Post by Fade Mei'ren on Jan 12, 2007 14:50:24 GMT -5
Sorry for the double post, if this is one. Now if you come on as a drow and reason is you had a change of heart.. well that wouldnt cut it in my books since drow would be killed on sight for a change of heart or mutated by Lloth into some abomination to serve her Then how come there are Eilistraee CG worshippers that look pretty drow to me? ;D It's the clergy that serves the punishment, not Lolth herself, as far as I know. Don't get caught, serve an intermediate or greater deity and you'll be fine. ...On a side note, I can't imagine how a drow would end up being raised by surface elves. >.> They're more than likely to kill the drowling, suspecting that the taint is always there. And they're right, because the corruption of drows is literal and near-eternal. In my book, they cannot go any "better" than CG because of their innate corruption.
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Post by kriegslied on Jan 12, 2007 14:54:09 GMT -5
Well considering CG is the best alignment anyways... Oh, wrong discussion, my bad.
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Post by Fade Mei'ren on Jan 12, 2007 14:59:47 GMT -5
*cough* But yes, back to the topic at hand. >.>
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Post by Cecil on Jan 12, 2007 15:10:26 GMT -5
The official word, from me, is that drow are still hated, feared, and the target of hate crimes throughout most of faerun. However, we're in the Shining South, on an island half owned by pirates, half owned by planetouched or corrupt merchant nobles, with a small smattering of good and neutrals(with, and Lord Hurath's men is an example, alot of power sometimes).
Newcomers to the island(or, PCs like you) are allowed to react any way they'd like, with extreme hate towards the drow or with leniency, or whatever suits you. There are places in the realms that accept monstrous races(I believe the Dragon Coast is a good example, and also Dambrath(correct me if I'm wrong about Dambrath, I don't have the book near me) is ruled by Crinti and half drow while also being a surface kingdom)
So the final answer is : This is a lawless town that partially accepts monstrous humanoids, it's only a bit more lawful than your standard pirate town since they're forced to have some semblance of order by their Azurite Masters via Spellstorm. The hostility towards giants, kobolds, orcs and so on is more due to violence in the past and the present. It doesn't mean everyone in town is going to be all loving towards drow, there's still a whole bunch of hate and racism, especially in the docks area, but it isn't as fearful or violent as in the rest of Faerun.
edit : While you're allowed to act however you'd like towards drow and drow towards non-drow, that isn't a valid pvp reason to attack and kill them on sight over and over. It becomes kinda unfair if everytime a player walks into town they're attacked by another player. It's fine if fighting breaks out due to the racial tension just don't overdo it.
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